Metal Contraband’s Chelsea spoke with Carl Canedy about the latest work from The Rods, “Rattle The Cage”, the art of remote recording, his work with Adam and the Metal Hawks, keeping the integrity of authentic drumming in a modern digital landscape, his go-to gear, the challenges of producing, new music coming from The Rods and Canedy, and more. Check it out below:

 

Chelsea here on the phone with Carl Canedy, how are you doing today? 

I am doing great, thanks for having me. 

Absolutely, thanks for coming on. So, of course, the latest news with you is the new album from The Rods, Rattle the Cage, just released in January on Massacre Records. Awesome heavy rock album. I feel like it’s a nod to the classics in a modern sort of way. So talk to me about how you guys first got into making a new album for The Rods. 

Well, we’ve been recording periodically, and our last album, Brotherhood of Metal, it took a while for us to do this, we started this process about two years ago. It took maybe, a year to write, but it took two years to get it released. There’s always all those pieces of the puzzle that have to fall into place. But you know, we wanted to do another album, we started and now we’re on a roll, we got a new bass player. Covid, of course, you know, took its toll on a lot of people. So, we have a new bass player and it’s just been a huge…it’s a new day for The Rods, sonically, musically. And that’s why this album is as different as it is. I think it’s being hailed as basically a throwback to our first album, or the best album since our first album. I contribute a lot of that to our guitarist David, his songwriting has kind of turned the corner. And of course we all contribute, but he’s been having the bulk of the music and doing a great job. And Freddy coming in with his bass sound, which is different than we’ve had. It’s a very Black Sabbath, Geezer Butler kind of deep bass with a high bright top end. And of course, Chris Collier, the famous mix engineer, has been doing projects for us, and for me personally for a number of years now, and he’s been the secret weapon. He knows what we need to sound like, and he delivered it on this album. 

Awesome results, and yeah, I agree the bass tone is definitely kind of new for The Rods. I did notice that the bass stands out, but especially being a three-piece kind of setup, you know, the instruments have a good balance, which is really cool, to make you guys each stand out individually while still fitting together as an awesome unit.

Yeah, absolutely, and as simple as that sounds, you know, “oh, there are only three instruments”, it’s not easy to get each instrument to sound…have its own place sonically and you know, stand out on its own. And of course, for me being the drummer, all I care about is the drums being as loud as they possibly can. That’s all I care about. Just make the drums loud, and then if they’re loud, then it’s good. No, I’m kidding. 

I know, right? Drums gotta take over the whole track. What is the track without drums, man? Of course. 

That’s right. Now we have a saying in The Rods, and it’s tongue in cheek, and we always laugh about it, but to a certain extent, it is, to a certain point, it’s true. And that is that if it’s more than three chords, if it takes longer than five minutes to learn, it’s not a good Rods song. In a three-piece band, things have to be powerful. And if you’re trying to do a lot of intricate, delicate things, it really doesn’t translate live, you know? The fans aren’t going to stand there and watch you noodle. Unless you really have an incredibly great song like a “Stairway To Heaven”, a song where they know it was a huge hit. Otherwise, they don’t want to see you noodling around. They want you to come in and, you know, knock it out of the park right away. So that’s what we try to keep it. Keep that in mind. Try to keep the fans in mind when we write material. 

That’s a great approach to songwriting. And yes, it’s different when there’s kind of a multi-guitar band kind of set up where everybody has room and space to step up and solo, and you’re going to have the rhythm to support. When each instrument is standing out, that is the point, it’s standing out, so you need to make sure that it’s impactful for the time that you guys are playing. So I agree with that. That’s a great approach. Now, even though you are known as a producer primarily as well, you actually didn’t produce this record, like you mentioned, it was Chris. So how is it for you when you take on that full musician only kind of role? Do you still find yourself thinking about things from a producer point of view? 

Always. I’ve had musicians that I’ve worked with in other projects and they always say, well, Carl hears things we don’t hear. And I think once you have those producer ears, you’re constantly dissecting and listening, and I’m always into arranging. So that’s probably been one of my strong points. And on this album, we co-produced this, and of course I had my fingers in the pot, even to the mix end of things. So we all, we worked together as a team. David’s great, Freddy is great. And so we all worked together on this. We hear something, we speak up, and otherwise we stay out of the way. And that’s been one of the things I think has worked for David and myself. We’ve been together 45 years, and basically we follow the lead, follow or get out of the way. That’s worked for us. 

Definitely, you have a solid enough system that’s just kind of intuitive by that point, I’d assume. 

It is. I think we’ve had…You know, we can look at each other, we work on things, we’re instinctive, you know, after all these years of working together. We’ve had tense moments. And I don’t know why, because, Chelsea, to say that I am the sweetest, kindest, most easygoing guy…but despite that we’ve had a couple of tense moments. And I’m kidding when I say that. But we’ve never had an argument. We’ve never had a shouting match or anything. 45 years, we’ve never had anything like that. We have had moments where we’ve had to really work things out. Sometimes it gets a little emotional, but no raised voices, nothing. No, “you’re a jerk”, nobody gets punched. 

That’s good. But no, that says a lot about you guys and how you work together and also just why you’ve stuck together for this long. 

I think there’s a mutual respect and I think that’s what’s carried us through. 

So also on the topic of producing, what first drew you to producing? Did you start out from the musician side? Were drums your first instrument and then you kind of moved into producing from there? What pulled you into the studio side?

Drums were my first instrument, but almost within a month or two of playing drums, I had a guitar. So when I couldn’t play drums, because you can only play drums for so many hours a day before people will just come and burn your house down. So I would pick up the guitar and I’d play the rest of the night. And that’s what I would do, noodle on the piano and practice guitar all the time as well as drums. So then I would start to write songs. And I think in those early years, I would probably say I wrote 50 of the worst songs ever written on guitar. And when I say the worst, I have notebooks full of the most trite, pathetic lyrics along with the simplest chords you could possibly put to those trite lyrics. But I was always drawn to arranging songs and I remember one of my girlfriends was at Elmira College and she could take out a model tape recorder, and one of her friends took one out, so I was able to bounce them back and forth, these horrible songs I wrote. And I would play the guitar on one, and then I would play another guitar part, and I would sing and I would bounce them back. So let the recorder play through that little speaker and then it would record to the other little speaker and it was so bad. So probably after I did some overdubs, it was basically hiss and a horrible song underneath the hiss. But I was into it from day one. And when we got to the studio for the first Rods album, David and I had nobody there, it was just the two of us. So when he was working on vocals and guitar parts, I helped, and vice versa when I was doing drum tracks and just progressed from there. 

That’s awesome. 

I always loved it, and I love producing. In fact, the last thing I produced by an outside artist was Adam and the Metal Hawks last year. I did a Christmas song for them.  It was a great, great session, great talented band. If you haven’t heard of them, Adam and the Metal Hawks, they’re fantastic. And so I still love it. It’s just economically, it’s not feasible anymore. In terms of time, it’s no longer feasible. It takes a big commitment to do a project. And if you’re not having a major label budget, it’s very tough to take weeks of your time. 

Definitely. That’s something that’s kind of occurring with the technology of producing as well. A lot of people taking things on the DIY route and everything and a lot less money going into major studios and studio time as well. But a lot of people are kind of figuring out how to do things on their own, recording their own home setups and everything, it’s definitely shifted the kind of landscape of producing and recording, and just the way that looks now as opposed to even five or 10 years ago, it’s already changed so much. 

And it’s funny you say that because I just finished a drum track for someone in Dubai. 

Wow! 

They said, “do you do drum tracks for people?” and I said, “sure, let me hear it. If I think I can play it, if I can do it justice, I’m happy to do it”. So I did it, I got paid, it was fun. And you know, so. It’s easier, it was in Dubai. We had to communicate, because of the time difference, so it was tough to communicate sometimes because it was kind of upside down time, but whatever, it was fun to do. But, it is a case of we record remotely, but with Adam and the Metalhawks, we recorded live, and the vocals, so if you listen to their Christmas song, not “Run Run Rudolph”, but the other Christmas song, they’re really talented and they did all their vocals live around the microphone. I just balanced them around a large diaphragm microphone. But it was fun because normally, I don’t get to record in the studio with a band. Normally, it’s all remote. 

Exactly yeah. Adam and the Metal Hawks is a great band, they performed at the Metal Hall of Fame last year actually, and I caught them. They have that authentic rock and roll kind of sound going on so they’re great to see in the modern rock landscape as well. They nod to the classics a lot too, but yeah, that’s the thing about the producing and studio time kind of looking different these days. It is mostly remote. 2020 had a lot to do with that of course, but it has its pros and cons, you know, because there’s a lot less bands going for the live and jam vibe of recording, but you get to work on extremely unique projects like recording something for someone halfway or all the way across the world, you know? Those are opportunities that it also offers as well, just using as much of the advantages as you can. 

They never existed before. And I also think that as drummers now, I know for me, I’ve learned to play on, behind, and ahead of the click track, so I can actually play on the beat for certain parts, but push it a little bit in the chorus, lay back in the verse, all within the context of being correct on time on the click track, but give it…breathe, let the song sound like it’s basically an old school approach to it and that’s important. David and I have worked so well together. Freddy, I call us “The Thunder Twins”, the bass playing, and we lock in so well together. So we’re able to really accomplish remotely what you would think we would be able to do in the studio, and of course what we do live. That was really important to get that pulse on “Rattle The Cage”, a live feeling. And when I send my drum tracks, I do what’s called zeroed wave, starts at the beginning and it ends at the end of the song. And I try to play my tracks straight through. I don’t do, “I’ll do three chorus takes and I’ll punch this and I’ll paste this”. I don’t do that. I’m like, here you go. If there’s something that is off or I’ll need to change, I’ll change the whole thing. Don’t mess with my tracks, because today so many things are beat detected and put on the grid and moved to the point where, like, someone said to me one day, “how can you tell who’s a good drummer anymore? Because it’s all triggered and moved around. So who knows what they played or didn’t play”. And my feeling is if you’re going to do that to my drum tracks, tell me and I’ll just program. I won’t even waste my time to play and I’ll program. 

No, it’s good. You’re keeping the integrity of the live feel because that is what happens when you’re playing a live show. Things do push forward a little bit, pull back a little bit throughout even just one song, and it’s not going to be exactly robotically on the beat every single time. It’s the humanity of it. 

That’s that pulse that you really react to. You know, that’s this little thing that hits you, and you’re reacting to that pulse of that music, as opposed to just so metronomic. Which I love that stuff too, I mean, believe me, I love the whole cut and paste approach, and I love that too. A place for everything. 

Exactly, yeah, it’s just taking the positives and the advantages of all the different angles of it, because it is a different landscape, but there’s a lot of good that can come out of it as well. 

Yes, and I’ve worked too hard to develop my own style to sort of just throw it away and just say yeah, just you know, re-trigger, move things around and whatever. I mean, why bother playing if that’s the case? 

Right. So you mentioned “Rattle the Cage”, the track as well. I mean, it is the name of the album, but that is a great standout track. It’s also the latest single and video that we’ve seen from The Rods, so can you tell us a little more about what went into that track specifically? 

You know, David has been writing the last two albums. I wrote one of the songs, “1982”, I wrote all the music and lyrics and so on for that song, but “Brotherhood of Metal”, I sent him the lyrics for and he came up with a killer track. On this, so he’s been writing songs, he’s been turning the corner as a songwriter, focusing more on vocals and more on lyric content, as well as a guitar player, just keeps improving his songwriting. So…I had this idea for, sometimes you just have to “rattle the cage”. People are pissed, bottom line, I’m sure we’ve all noticed that people are angry and sometimes with reason, and sometimes just because they’re jerks. But bottom line, is there’s a lot of anger out there and so I had these lyrics about sometimes you have to “rattle the cage, just have to rattle the cage”, just sent them to David and he turned it into this killer tune. And it just seems like people really can relate to the fact that what the lyrics are and the song, he set it up perfectly. And so that’s how that came about, but it’s one of my favorite tracks on the album. It seems like everybody can relate to it. 

For sure, it’s a great track to be the title track and just kind of define the album because the sound is very strong and of course the music video has a very live presence to it so it fits in really nicely. And then “Play It Loud” is another awesome track which is definitely a standout single, very rock anthem vibe. So any thoughts to share on that one? 

I had asked David, because I send ideas, I had asked him to write a song that was basically a call and response within the song. Not where you have to stop and, “everybody put your hands together”. But a call and response within the song, and that’s what he came back with. And it was pretty amazing. And quite honestly, I have to ask him because that may not have been the direct result of what I mentioned to him, but it came back right after I mentioned it to him. So I will confirm that before I say that’s actual fact. *laughs*

Well, it worked out in any case. 

Yeah, no, but really, it’s a great song and it has that call and response thing built in and it’s just a cool track. And for David, that’s the story of his life, play it loud. This guy was joking about it because people say, you know, when we play clubs together, the guitar is so loud, can you turn it down? And I would always say, look, give him an acoustic guitar, you’ll still be up here asking to turn it down. 

That’s great. So which is the track that you said you wrote for this one? 

I wrote, the one I wrote was “1982”, but that was on Brotherhood of Metal

Ah, okay, got you. So this was mainly Rod and Dave in this case, for this one? 

So David wrote all the music, Freddie contributed some riffs that we jammed on, “Hell Or High Water”. We’re three quarters of the way through the new album, so maybe I’ll have something to contribute because I am sending ideas and recording. But for this album, not. David just kept cranking out and calling me every day or two. “I’ve got a new one. I have a new one”. 

So either as a musician or as a producer, have you come to find any go-to gear that you always stick with for any project? 

Well, are we talking about drums? Are we talking about outboard gear?

So either way, just anything that kind of sticks with you that you’re like, “I cannot do a performance or recording without this particular thing”. Is there anything like that for you or do you like to switch it up with your gear? 

Well, for me, live now, I have a 101 – from Sweden – signature snare drum. That’s been the drum that has been…Other musicians, when they use my drum kit, they’ve said to me, “we’ll use my snare drum” and I say, “you’re welcome to try mine”, they hit it a couple times, and they go nuts when they hear it, they’re like “Oh my god, we’ll play with this one”. It’s great, it’s so well made, it’s such a fantastic sounding drum that I love it. And so I use it for all of my live gigs because it’s such a great drum. And of course, recording as well. And the other thing is, I have a Ludwig hand-hammered tube lug snare drum, Black Beauty, which, you know, being a poor kid growing up and then you never see them because they’re very expensive. But I finally bought one for myself last year, for this album, and that snare drum is God to me for recording. It’s the sound that I’ve been looking for and I’m thrilled with it. So I’m reluctant to change it out to record. I do, depending on the song, but for the most part, my Black Beauty snare drum from Ludwig is the go-to for me now. 

It’s great that you have that, things that you settle into and feel comfortable with it that are a part of your sound, but you know, it’s not necessarily that the gear defines your sound, but it’s something that you can use to bring out your own sound in that sense. 

It is. It’s nice to have that instrument that will deliver what you’re hearing in your head, because that’s difficult. It’s tough to get it to approximate what you’re hearing in your head. It’s always the sound you’re chasing.

Definitely, I mean, either as musician or producer. I feel like that’s the perspective. It’s hard to get it out into words sometimes, you’re like, “I know what this is supposed to sound like and I’ll know it when I hear it, but I can’t tell you how to find it”. 

I remember I was producing the Heavier Than Thou album, and Craig Gruber was playing bass, and Craig came in, and Craig Gruber played with Black Sabbath until Geezer came back, but he played with Gary Moore, he played with Ozz, he played with The Rods, he played with Elf, he played with a lot of bands. And a phenomenal bass player. But we’re in the studio and apparently he didn’t really understand the sounds. First time I worked with him in the studio that way, they’d only been live prior to. And so I go, “Craig, what are you looking for in the sound?” And he goes, “Just turn the knobs. I’ll know when I hear it”. It’s not exactly the scientific approach, but we’ll work with it. It’s like some musicians will tell you, “this sounds like too much oranges, but I want more apples”. Like, what the hell does that mean? So you’re trying to decipher these things, the code words that musicians use when they don’t really know how to dial in the sound. But today, there’s so many amp modeling devices and musicians are a little more savvy and aware of it. It’s always a challenge in the studio to get that sound you’re looking for that works for the player and works for the overall project. It’s always a delicate balance.

Definitely, but that’s part of the art and the skill of producing. And that’s why, although there’s a lot of people trying to do it and trying to learn it at home, there’s the ones who make a career of it and then there’s the ones who keep it kind of casual on the side. I think the distinction is that being able to listen, having that art of listening and being able to produce the sound as you want it, and as somebody else wants it, is really the skill that comes into play when you’re producing. 

It does. There’s so many aspects to producing, including being a therapist. You know, you have to kind of get in people’s minds of what they’re trying to do, and they’re trying to understand their goal. You want to help them reach their goal, but you don’t want…sometimes artists will shoot themselves in the foot without realizing it. So you have to walk that line where you have to let them know. And everybody comes to things in their own time. So you may realize that they are not quite there, and they need a little more time. So you buy them that time as best you can while they’re figuring it out, so they come to it on their own. Because sometimes you can really hurt, psyches are delicate, especially guys. When you’re working with a female artist, they’re like totally cool. No big ego involved, but with guys, you gotta really watch, because they get very…You would think they would be the opposite. You would think they would be really tough, but they’re very sensitive. So, you walk a delicate line sometimes. 

Yeah, well a lot of people are very sensitive when it comes to their music, especially if it’s something that they’ve written from scratch themselves, lyrics and music and everything. It becomes a very personal project at that point. So, I’m sure it can be hard to get someone else’s input and you want somebody else’s input to help you construct the sound you want, but at the same time, you’re like…that’s your project, that’s your baby in a sense, so it can be tricky from both sides.

It really is, and you get “demo-itis”. That’s the other thing you have to combat, the people who have heard their demo for so long a certain way, and maybe the snare drum is really loud, and now they get to it and they go, “Oh, but the snare drum’s not loud enough”. I’m like, “Right, but the mix works as is, and the snare doesn’t need to be that loud”, and they’re just like, “but that doesn’t sound right to me”. You have to let them have some time to adjust. But yeah, that’s so true. People come with their own preconceived ideas of what it should sound like. And when it doesn’t sound like that, even if it sounds better, they still have a hard time adjusting.

It’s great though, I mean, you’ve got an excellent track record as a producer so you’ve clearly gotten the art of it down pat, and you’ve got the musician side of things going with The Rods and tons of other projects going on so, it’s great to see new music coming from you and The Rods and everything you’ve got going on. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. Can we wrap this up with you telling me what’s on the horizon for you in terms of projects right now? 

Chelsea, thank you for asking that. We’re three quarters of the way through the new Rods album, believe it or not. And as I said, David’s been really prolific and we’ve all really been working on that, so we’re moving along on that. I have a new Canedy album, solo album, that I have seven songs recorded. I have a new book, Tales of A Wild Dog, which will be released very soon. We have a bunch of things happening, we have some dates, we’ll be in Sweden July 6th, the Time to Rock Festival, and just finalizing dates in Australia, and we have some dates here, with Jim Florentine, we’re doing a date with him on the 20th of April, so a bunch of things going. You can always reach us at TheRods.com or Carl Canedy on Facebook, I have several pages and just find me and easy to contact, or The Official Rods Fan Page on Facebook.

Awesome, great stuff. Well, it sounds like there’s so much going on for you, so we’ll keep an eye out for everything, your book, your new albums, and best of luck on tour with your upcoming dates. So thanks again for taking time to talk with me. 

Thank you, Chelsea. Appreciate it very much.